In a message dated 95-08-15 14:41:09 EDT, you write:

« The Greek word there for lust is NOT that usually referring to sexual lust, but orexoi–appetites (as for food). St. John Chrysostom, the 4th century bishop who invented expostiory preaching, says, “Note the passage does not refer to two men drawn by mutual love and passion, but burning in their appetites.” The one he approves, or at least tolerates; the other is condemned. (The distinction is even clearer in the original Greek.) »

Ou ga`r ei^-pein (h)o'ti e_rasthe_'san kai` epethy'me_san alle_'lwn, all' exekau'the_san en te_^| ore'xei autw^n eis alle_'lous.

Key: ` ^ ' = accents; initial vowel has smooth breathing unless (h) which is heavy breathing [i.e. rough breathing]. Accents always follow vowel, breathings precede them. “e_”=eta, “e”=epsilon, “w”=omega, “|” = dative iota-subscript; “u”=“y” = upsilon (ypsilon); “x”=xi not chi.

Literally, “For he does not say that they fell in love (<“eros”) with each other or had passion for each other (<“epithymia”, sometimes translated as “lust”, though not always accurately), but `They burned in their lust [or, appetite] toward each other' ”. (The nested quote, of course, being a quote of the passage in Romans 1:27). From: Ad epistolam ad Romanos, homily 4. In fact, he continues right after this, saying “Do you see that all such desire stems from a greed which will not remain within its usual bounds.” [←- trans. J. Boswell] as one who abandons eating food for eating soil and stones.

True about the word “appetite” – have you done any word searches to see if this distinction is consistently made?

On the subject, here's a piece of Boswell's translation of St. John the Faster's penitential; the original Greek being in P.G. 88:1193. He is talking about incest when he brings up arsenokoitia; which is discussed separately from mutual masturbation and “corruption of boys”, which are same-sex activities prone to being lumped in with arsenokoitia.

”[There are many different kinds of incest]. One type is committed with two sisters of the same father or mother (or both). Another involves a cousin; another the daughter of a cousin; another the wife of one's son; another the wife of one's brother. It is one thing with a mother-in-law or the sister of a mother-in-law, another with a stepmother or father's concubine. Some even do it with their own mothers, and others with foster sisters or goddaughters. In fact, many men even commit the sin of arsenokoitia with their wives.”

The last sentence is: To` me'ntoi te_^s arsenokoiti'as my^sos polloi` kai` meta` tw^n gynaikw^n autw^n ektelou^sin. Literally, “And many even complete the vice of arsenokoitia with their own wives.” “Complete”: Does that mean they came? (St. John the Faster is very thorough and detailed in describing sexual practices). The verb would indeed suggest that! (Liddell and Scott have for “ektele'w”: to bring quite to an end, accomplish, achieve). And yes, a verb of the same root is used to indicate ejaculation in modern Greek, as also is the verb chu'nw. (<ch>=chi).

He, in fact, later uses the same verb without the ek- to indicate just that: “The priest should inquire…whether…he has taken communion after eating or drinking, has defiled himself during Lent, or has received communion indifferently after having sex with a woman. Has he contracted a secret marriage or indulged in kissing and fondling without going all the way? [literally, “did not finish the deed”; « to` de` e'rgon ouk ete'lese »)” He then immediately continues: “Has he corrupted a boy… (i.e. « epaidoftho're_sen »)”.

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